Interview with Heidi Grundmann

Titolo Originale: Interview with Heidi Grundmann (di Josephine Bosma)

Tradotto da:Gaia Pierini Anno: 1997

Grundmann Heidi

Heidi Grundmann is an art journalist and curator in the field of radio-art. For over a decade she was the producer of KUNSTRADIO, a 55 minute program broadcast weekly on 01, the cultural channel of the Austrian National Radio, ORF. Since the beginning of 1995 KUNSTRADIO has its own artist-run homepage, which is the site of many art projects and live webcasts.

o Interview with Heidi Grundmann (di Josephine Bosma) http://telematic.walkerart.org/overview/overview_bosma.html

Josephine Bosma: Can you tell us something about your background? Heidi Grundmann: My background is radio journalism. I used to report on contemporary visual arts and took a strong interest on the subjects of art and technology and art in the public space. Because I'm working for an organisation like the Austrian national radio, I should say that we still have almost a monopoly in Austria. We don't have a multitude of radios like in other countries. Now its changing a little bit, but it is still a very monolithic structure. Anyway, I was working for the cultural actuality program, - the "Kulturredaktion" - and then I changed from being somebody who reported on contemporary visual art to somebody who had a program in the features and radio drama department. I just shifted inside the organisation. That was in 1987. Because of my work before, talking to so many many artists in the field of art and technology, art in the public space and art and telecommunications, I was somehow in the position to define my new program as a space for radio art and, what is more important, as a kind of entrance point for artists of all kinds, visual artists, composers or writers, whatever, who wanted to position their work in the context of public radio. The space of public radio can of course be defined and delineated in many different ways and that is what these artists did. There are people who define it as a sculptural space, others defined it as a public space comparable to the public urban space, where art is confronted with everyday life. Others want to make interventions in that space, others again want to remix the material that is being broadcast, yet others are very interested in the communication side of it all. Some make complex layerings of sounds and enjoy using the production facilities of a National radio, others only deal with live radio etc. Around what was originally a weekly radio program titled "Kunstradio," which over the last ten years helped artists to produce and develop ways to reflect the context of public radio as it reaches into society, somehow also a body of theoretical discourse evolved. It evolved out of the practice of the artists and was tested in the framework of several radio-art symposia where the artist-theoreticians met with media-theorists. I still think some of the artists are among the best ttheoreticians because they don't come from books but from the practice of positioning their work in very complex cultural-technological contexts. Over the years there has been a string of projects connecting live radio, the space of radio transmission to other public spaces like museums or the urban space from shopping malls to big open squares or a whole network of different locations in one or different cities. From the very beginning there has been a group of artist connected to the Kunstradio that were very interested in telecommunications and actually belonged to the pioneers of telecommunications art in Europe. They informed the theoretical background of the Kunstradio very strongly. It is a specific Austrian development that there has been a relatively long and strong tradition of telematic work in the field of art. During the late 70s and the 80s this telecommunication art developed outside the radio using all kind of new technologies connected to the telephone. But some of the artists involved in telecommunications would sometimes also produce radio-art. Only in the beginning of the 90s a younger generation, I think it was the third or fourth, started to develop projects in which they connected the space of electronic networks with the space of the public radio into one single space of artistic action and intervention. Issues that had been at the heart of the telematic projects of the 80s and that some of the radio artists had tried to deal with by going into the archives of the radio, by developing pieces without beginning or end, by involving listeners and technicians etc. now suddenly had a much more powerful and much clearer impact on the radio: the question of authorship; the question of everything becoming material that can be fragmented, sampled, recycled, put into different contexts; the question of the traditional notion of work of art being completely redefined; the question of copyright -- all these issues were suddenly swept clearly to the surface by the kind of projects that connect the space of traditional radio to the space of electronic networks. JB: Can you tell me what you call telematic art? HG: Telematic .... I've always had a problem with an exact definition. It is one of those words that are really just notions to keep a dialogue going, to be able to talk about something evolving in connection with new communication technologies. Everybody interprets it differently but it was used quite early to refer to projects in which artists used telecommunications media. It is about art that works at a distance. Art that deals with simultaneity, telepresence, distributed authorship as Roy Ascot called it, who in the early 80s initiated a very exexemplaryelematic project called "La Plissure du Texte". It was a global fairytale that was told by sixteen different stations in the world over two weeks - using a forerunner of the Internet in e-emailnd conference mode. And nobody knew how many people participated, nobody was the author but everybody who participated was one author of many. The work itself could basically only be experienced by the participants and each of them experienced his or her own version. It was not possible to mediate this kind of fairytale to a traditional passive audience... JB: Was this all in your radiradio showi> HG: These early telematic projects were not radio. But strangely enough, what in hindsight looks interesting was the first telematic project in which European artists participated. It took place in 1979 and was called "Interplay". There was a worldwide set up with this IP Sharp timesharing system that functioned quite similar to the Internet. There were people in Vienna participating, because there was a local office of this IP Sharp firm that was quite interested in having artists working with it. These artists were Richard Kriesche and Robert Adrian. The artists were in the office and the man who ran the IP Sharp office was in my live radio studio, trying to make the listener understand what was happening. It was a radio program really *about* art activities. The man was sitting there with his terminal trying to type in his messages and to participate in the project in which artists in over 10 cities around the world were connected. Meters and meters of paper were running out of the printer. We just couldn't read everything that was coming in to the listeners. We could not say, now this is from San FraFranciscod this is from Sydney.- there were just too many messages.It was extremely difficult to give the listeners any impression of what was going on. The radio studio had become one more live node in a telematic network. But what went out on the radio was just read texts.....mostly in English and in between helpless attempts to explain something quite incomprehensible to most people including me. This was the first connection that I know of between live radio and a telematic project. Ten years later, because not only the technology had developed so much further, but also the thinking, the conceptualising and the practice of an art that kept three generations of visual artists, composers, musicians, technicians busy, it was possible to formulate what was then called simultaneous telematic radio projects There were, as you know, the projects in which Gerfried Stocker was involved (Others involved were Seppo Gruendler, Horst Hoertner, and then Mia Zabelka, Andres Bosshard, Isabella Bordoni, Roberto Paci Daló, Andrea Sodomka, Martin Breindl, Norbert Math, Martin Schitter and on several occasions Dutch artists connected to V2 and many others. Gerfried Stocker was one of the people who came to Kunstradio in the beginning of the 90s and said: We have this sculpture standing at the Expo in Sevilla and its run via telephone, modems, midi and computers. Why don't we make a concert where I am sitting in the radio studio in Vienna and I have all kinds of samplers and sequencers. The people in Sevilla will then trigger the sounds in the studio in Vienna. We can broadcast them live, but we can also send back what they have triggered, so they can mix it there with other sounds and resend it to us and the radio just becomes one outlet in a recycling process really - recycling and re-assembling of material. [see http://gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at/~gerfried/puente/ an early example of an artist-run homepage, not updated since about 1996--hg] From then on Kunstradio helped organise a series of similar projects: simultaneous telematic radio (and at one point even TV) projects. Finally two very big worldwide projects were developed and realised: Horizontal Radio in 1995 and Rivers and Bridges last year. And this year we are planning another one with the title "Station to Station" in December. The EBU (European Broadcasting Union) Ars Acustica group also got involved. This is a group made up of all the radio-art producers and editors in public radios in Europe, North America and Australia. The Ars Acustica group is getting bigger and bigger and each country has a completely different tradition and definition of radio art. It was possible to involve the Ars Acustica group in the Horizontal Radio, Rivers &Bridges and now Station to Station projects--actually the Ars Acustica Group took them on as its annual projects.

"Station to Station" was, in the end, not realised as an EBU project. Instead some of its sub-projects were integrated into the four part international Kunstradio project "Recycling the Future," which experimented with the realisation and documentation of non-stop, live streaming over longer periods and for the first time used "on air-on line-on site" as a subtitle to characterize the new hybrid production context of collaborative networked projects. The basic principle of the projects was really developed from the early telematic projects. Horizontal Radio even explexplicitly referred to the project "The World in 24 hours" that Robert Adrian had initiated in 1982: Every 'station' could participate according to the means they had, according to the art notions they had, according to whatever they wanted to do. But the contributions had to be fed into the network of radio and telephone lines within a negotiated slot of 24 hours. Everybody had to give and take. There was no central event that was transmitted to all participants. The event consisted of everything that happened during the 24 hours in the very complex network between on site, on line and on air activities at over 20 locations on three continents. Five internet servers were participating in 1995 and the users could influence the output by triggering all kind of material on on-site CD's, which then was flowing back into the network of the radios and was then broadcast in diffdifferentts of the world in completely different contexts. All the programs were live and all the programs took fragments of the incredible wealth of activity going on all over the world and rearranged the material with their own material and sent it back to the other nodes. There were many performances and installations taking place in front of a live audience. The next year Rivers&Bridges did something very similar but with a much more important role for the internet (18 hours of Real Audio Live) and with more connections between public and independent radios. Again it became a huge network between many locations on three continents. Since Horizontal Radio the name "Horizontal Radio" has become a general name for this genre of international simultaneous projects connecting the radiradio spacea different way filling it with a different content handling it in a different manner: horizontally, opening up the medium of radio to other physical and virtual spaces - collcollagingse spaces in live situations. JB: Is Ars Acustica connected to Ars Electronica? HG: No, Ars Acustica is a name that I think does not really fit what has happened in the Ars Acustica group during the last two years. To me Ars Acustica refers to the traditional sound-radio. A medium that functioned by itself in a very specific way. A very interesting and rich acoustic art developed since the avant garde of the beginning of the century, an acoustic art which eventually found its place also in radio - reflecting it with the means of transmitted sound, often produced in the elaborate studios of National Public Radios. One organisation that was, and still is, very active in this field is the West Deutsche Rundfunk in Cologne, with Klaus Schoening, who also developed the whole notion of Neues Hoerspiel. He worked a lot with FLuxus artists and developed, over many years, a huge body of what he calls "Ars Acustica". He was one of the founders of that group in the EBU and its first coordinator, and so the group took on this name. Not very long after that, about the end of 80s, radio started to change noticeably because of digitalisation, under the impact of the so-called convergence of mass media, the computer and telecommunication. And so today I am convinced that radio is not only about sound anymore. I am not happy with the term Internet radio myself, but definitely if there is such a thing, if you webcast something, if you do live activities in the internet, then its definitely also visual radio - radio to look at. Its by no means only about sound. The way radio - commercial radio, the big national organisations, but even independent or pirate radio - is developing, it is no longer simply the smaller of the Radio/TV mass media twins, but has become part of what we call a "Medienverbund" (media combination/union), a new type of network of different media. And the leading medium in this Verbund is the computer as Wolfgang Hagen has pointed out. Sound is then only one form of many possible representations of data. For instance, digital radio can lead you through traffic (by visual maps or text or sound), open your garage door, start to cook your dinner, display the text of the bio and a photo of a composer whose music you are listening to etc. Now we are in a situation where we just start to try to grasp what this megamedium that looms on the horizon might mean for our culture. Today we are dealing with many different hybrids between old and new forms and the old familiar radio, as an isolated listening medium that brings you news, drama, music, talk and is a reliable companion, whose clocklike habits accompany you as a flow of sound. is a nostalgic relic. There are many artists working in and for the context of this nostalgic medium but there are many others working in a hybrid networked space of constant change. Now the big, culturally very relevant thing is that there is a very powerful commercial conglomerate in this 'Medienverbund' and even most of the public radio and televisions are looking at the new media not as a cultural field but as a field for business. They are hoping to make money! Also with cultural programs - I can see that the environment in which my radio program is located has changed completely. Even the cultural channel that is really funded, by law, by listeners fees is doing 'marketing'. All these commercial concepts have entered the daily functioning of non-commercial radio - including firms and banks coming in by the backdoor to sponsor things. I think the lines are suddenly running on different borders, between the commercial sector and the cultural non-commercial sector. I think it is strategically very important to form new alliances there. A program like Kunstradio and the work of the artists working for Kunstradio is something alien to the structure of that commercial or semi-commercial culture, even on a cultural channel. In a way, we have much more affinity to free radio, independent radio or to media activism reflecting the internet etc. It is different alliances that come together now and it is very necessary that they do come together. There is a new type of marginalisation going on ...I mean, the commercial pressures are at any rate so strong that there is a need to save some place for a process of reflection, whether you call it art or whatever. What is happening to our culture needs to be reflected, thought about. Some of the artists that I have the pleasure to work with are very important figures in this kind of reflection process. Again: because they are very strong theoreticians and because they also have very strong attitudes towards what is happening to our culture. And both, their theories and their attitudes are informed by their practice in the new mmedia space JB: What exactly would you like to see happening? You painted a bit of a picture of something that might be called a danger to free art radio. Is there something that absolutely needs to be part of this new free media network? HG: I don't see any solutions at all. Solutions are not at all visible in any discussions going on. For example; the one on net.art shows that nobody knows a solution, nobody has an answer. Everybody is asking questions. But what I think is very important, if one is interested at all in culture and what culture is, that strategies be developed for different groups forming again and again for the purpose of realising different projects or whatever you may call the different frames from which people work, certain aspects of the question 'how is our culture changing now?'. The groups are very important because it is a territory where no individual art is really possible. You can do a little tiny thing, like send a virus into the web and things like that (as an individual). But basically individual artists can not work there. I can only see that groups and constantly changing groupings of so-called artists and nonartists are forming all the time. One very strong aspect of Kunstradio, even as far as the normal weekly radio program is concerned, is that the artists have, since many years, recognised that a certain type of technician has become co-author of their pieces. They could not do it without this type of very engaged technician, who are in turn challenged by the artists to find different solutions and so on - plus the the aspect that people from different disciplines are suddenly working together. Some people come from music, others come from dance; there are the people from the visual arts, people from literature, and they constantly reshuffle in groups to do things. They take on different tasks, and they are developing new production strategies for this new kind of conglomerate of media. It is a constant learning, developing and researching process that needs groupings of some sort. They don't need to be groups for life, but for certain projects. They also have to look over the borders of one organisation or one country or whatever. Its a constant looking out and putting energy together. Acting to the moment, which is difficult enough to grasp. As long as this kind of networking also among people is taking place, I think, even when we don't know where it is going, there is a lot of hope. JB: You come from the visual arts, but you are now mostly into audio art. How did that change occur and did you like it? Now with net.radio we are moving more towards the visual realm again, do you regret that? HG: I started out to report and write about visual arts, but I did it in a medium that was not visual at all. There was not even an internet where I could have made little reproductions of what I am talking about. It was really just a medium where you could talk and make interviews. Also at the time when I got into that there was performance art, there was conceptual art and all kinds of dematerialised art. The theories of the artists doing this work were very important. So my move was very natural. I met a lot of people who were working as artists in the radio, with live radio for instance. That was a very very natural thing. It was not necessary to have images, physical images for this type of visual art activity. It had dematerialised, away from the physical image or object. Now there are images on the web, but they are only one aspect, they are one way that data can be interpreted. I think most people working in the field see it also like that. They see a whole range of possibilities to do something with data. The basis of it all is dealing with information and data. The whole notion of art has changed to a degree where the name itself is in question. Many artists question whether they want to call themselves artists at all. But there is still something going on, which I think is very important to our culture. Whether you name it art or not. I find it fascinating. I myself am not an artist, definitely never was and never will be. I changed from reporting on things to being involved in the organisation and the developing of projects. Thats of course a very very interesting field...... TRADUZIONE Heidi grundmann è una giornalista di arte e amministratrice nel campo della radio arte. Per oltre un decennio è stata la produttrice di KUNSTRADIO, 55 minuti di trasmissione settimanale su 01, il canale culturale dell’Austrian National Radio. Dagli inizi del 1995 KUNSTRADIO ha una sua propria homepage, un sito di molti progetti artistici e live webcast. J b: Può dirmi qualcosa riguardo al suo passato?

Mi ero appena trasferita all’interno dell'organizazzione . Era il 1987. Per il mio lavoro precedente, dove parlavo con così molti artisti nel campo dell'arte e della tecnologia, l’arte in uno spazio pubblico e arte e telecomunicazioni, io ero in qualche modo nella posizione di definire il mio nuovo programma come uno spazio per radio arte e cosa più importante, come una sorta di punto di entrata per artisti di qualsiasi genere, arti visivi, compositori o scrittori, comunque chiunque volesse far conoscere il proprio lavoro in una radio pubblica. Lo spazio della radio pubblica può essere definito e delineato in modi differenti ed è ciò che facevano tali artisti. C'erano persone che la definivano come uno spazio scultoreo, altri come uno spazio pubblico comparabile ad uno spazio urbano, dove l'arte veniva confrontata con la vita quotidiana, atri volevano fare invenzioni nello spazio, altri ancora volevano mescolare i materiali che erano stati trasmessi, altri ancora erano interessati alle parti comunicative di tutto ciò.

Alcuni immettevano suoni ed erano entusiasti di usare i servizi di produzione della National Radio, infine altri si occupavano soltanto della radio.

Attorno a Kunstradio, in origine un programma radio settimanale, che negli ultimi 10 anni ha aiutato artisti a produrre ed a sviluppare modi per riflettere il contesto di radio pubblica come ampliamento nella società, in qualche modo si evolveva anche un corpo di un discorso teorico. Tale discorso si sviluppava fuori dalla pratica di artisti ed era testato in simposi di radio arte in cui artisti teorici incontravano i media teorici. Tuttora penso che alcuni artisti sono tra i migliori teorici perché non vengono per libri ma per le pratiche di posizione dei loro lavori in un contesto culturale- tecnologico completo.

Per gli anni c'era stata una serie di progetti connessi alla radio, allo spazio delle trasmissioni radio per altri spazi pubblici come musei o allo spazio urbano da centri commerciali a grandi spazi aperti o un’intera rete di locazioni diverse in una o più città diverse. All’inizio c'erano un gruppo di artisti connessi a Kunstradio che erano molto più interessati in telecomunicazioni e che in realtà appartenevano ai pionieri dell’arte delle telecomunicazioni in Europa. Questi informarono il retroscena teorico di Kunstradio. E' uno specifico sviluppo austriaco dovuto relativamente ad una lunga e grande tradizione di lavoro telematico nel campo dell’arte. Durante gli anni '70 e gli anni ‘80 questa arte delle telecomunicazioni si

è sviluppata al di fuori della radio usando tutti i generi della nuova tecnologia connessa al telefono. 

Ma alcuni degli artisti coinvolti nelle telecomunicazioni volevano qualche volta produrre anche radio-arte. Soltanto agli inizi degli anni '90 una più giovane , penso di 3° o 4°, iniziò a sviluppare progetti in cui collegavano lo spazio di network elettronici con spazi di radio pubbliche all’interno di un unico spazio di interventi e azioni artistiche. Questioni che erano state al centro dei progetti telematici negli anni ’80 e che alcuni artisti avevano cercato di trattare attraverso gli archivi delle radio, sviluppando frammenti senza inizio o fine e coinvolgendo ascoltatori e tecnici etc… Adesso improvvisamente tali questioni hanno un impatto più forte e chiaro sulle radio: la questione del diritto di autore, il problema di qualcosa che divenuto materiale può essere frammentato, campionato, riciclato, inserito in contestio differenti, il caso della nozione tradizionale di lavoro dell’arte completamente ridefinite; il problema del copyright—questi casi furono immediatamente spazzate via pulite dalla superficie da tipi di progetti collegati allo spazio di una radio tradizionale ad uno spazio di network elettronico.

JB: Che cosa intende per arte telematica? HG: Telematica..... Ho sempre avuto difficoltà a trovarne un’esatta definizione. E' una di quelle parole che sono nozioni per tenere un dialogo, per essere capaci di parlare di qualcosa che si evolve in relazione alle nuove comunicazioni tecnologiche. Viene interpretata in modi diversi ma inizialmente è stata usata per riferire i progetti in cui gli artisti usavano i media di telecomunicazione. E' un arte che lavora a distanza. Arte che ha a che fare con simultaneità, telepresenza, distribuzione di autori come Roy Ascott la chiama, che all'inizio degli anni '80 iniziava un vero progetto "exeexemplaryelematic" chiamato"La Plissure du texte". Era una fiaba globale narrata da 16 diverse stazioni radio nel mondo per 2 settimane – usando un precursore di Internet in e- emailnd conferenza. E nessuno conosceva quante persone partecipavano nessuno era l’autore ma chiunque partecipasse era un autore. Il lavoro stesso poteva essere sperimentato dai partecipanti e ognuno di loro dava una propria versione. Non è possibile mediare questi generi di racconti ad ascoltatori passivi.

JB: E tutto questo era nel suo programma di radiradio?

Lo studio della radio era diventato un nodo più vivo in un network telematico. Tuttavia ciò che andava fuori dalla radio era, perlopiù leggere i testi in inglese e tra i tentativi di aiutare a spiegare qualcosa di completamente incomprensibile a diverse persone inclusa me.

Questa era la prima connessione che conoscevo tra la radio vera e un progetto telematico.

C’erano, come sai progetti in cui Gerfield Stocker era coinvolto ( altri iclusi erano Seppo Gruendler, Horst Hoertner, e altri Mia Zabelka, Andrei Bosshard, Isabella Bordoni, Roberto Paci Dalò, Andrea Sodomia, Martin Breindl, Norbert Math, Martin Schitter, e altri artsiti collegati a V2 e altri. Gerfield Stocker era uno di quelle persone che veniva a Kunstradio agli inzi degli anni ’90 e diceva: “ abbiamo questa scultura negli Expo di Se ville e vengono trasmesse via telefono, modem, midi e pc. Perché no facciamo un concerto dove io me ne sto in uno studio radio di Vienna e ho a disposizione tutti i tipi di campioni e sequenze. Le persone a Se ville daranno il via ai suoni nello studio di Vienna. Possiamo trasmettere, ma possiamo anche rimandare quello che loro hanno scelto e anche loro possono mixare questi con altri suoni e rimandarcelo e la radio diventa un progetto di riciclaggioe di ri- assemblaggio di materiali. Da allora in poi la Kunstradio ha aiutato a organizzare una serie di progetti simili: progetti di radio telematica simultanea (e ad un certo punto anche la tv).

La Ebu (l’unione europea di trasmissione) coinvolge persino il gruppo Ars Acustica, un gruppo formato da tutti i produttori di radio-arte e da editori di radio pubbliche in Europa, Nord America e Australia.

5 server di internet partecipavano nel 1995 e gli utenti potevano influenzare l’uscita lanciando qualsiasi tipo di materiali sul cd, che quindi ritornava nei network delle radio ed era trasmessa nel mondo in contesti completamente diversi. Tutti i programmi erano vivi e prendevano frammenti di incredibile ricchezza di attività che andavano nel mondo e di materiali riordinati con i nostri materiali e spesiti. C’erano più esecuzioni e installazioni che prendevano posto davanti agli ascoltatori.

JB: Ars Acustica è collegata alla Ars Electronica?

HG: No Ars Acustica è un nome che penso non rappresenti realmente quello che è successo nel gruppo dell’Ars Acustica nel corso degli ultimi due anni. Per me Ars Acustica si riferisce a una tradizionale radio. Un mezzo che ha funzionato da se in un modo specifico. Un’arte acustica molto interessante si è sviluppata dall’avanguardia di inizio secolo; un’arte acustica che ha davvero trovato il suo posto anche in radio riportandola con il mezzi di suono trasmesso, spesso prodotta in studi all’avanguardia delle Radio pubbliche internazionali. Un’organizzazione che era, ed è ora molto attiva nel suo campo è la West Deutsche Rundfunk a Colonia con Klaus Schoening, che ha anche sviluppato , che creò la nozione di Neues Hoerspiel. Ha lavorato molto con gli artisti di Fluxus e ha sviluppato per molti anni, un ampio corpo, che si chiama Ars Acustica. E’ stato uno dei fondatori si questo gruppo nell’Ebu ed il suo primo coordinatore e così il gruppo assunse questo nome. Non molto tempo dopo intorno agli anni ’80, la radio iniziò acambiare notevolmente per il digitale, sotto l’impulso della cosiddetta convergenza dei mass media, computer e telecomunicazioni. E anche oggi sono convinta che la radio non riguarda più la musica . io personalmente non sono felice di questo, ma in definitiva se c’è una cosa di tal genere senza trasmettere qualcosa, se tu fai attività dal vivo su internet, allora c’è anche una radio che si vede, una radio da guardare. Ma non riguarda soltanto la musica.

Ci sono molti artisti che vi lavorano e per il contesto di questo mezzo nostalgico ci sono molti altri che lavorano in uno spazio network ibrido che cambia continuamente.

Anche la maggior parte delle radio e televisioni pubbliche stanno osservando i nuovi media non come un campo culturale ma come un campo per affari sperando di fare soldi! Anche con programmi culturali posso vedere che il territorio in cui il mio programma radio è collocato è cambiato completamente. Anche il canale culturale che è veramente consolidato, per legge, per gli ascoltatori sta facendo Marketing. Tutti questi concetti commerciali sono entrati nella funzione giornaliera di una radio non commerciale incluso ditte e banche che entrano per sponsorizzare.

Io penso che le linee stanno correndo in modo diverso, tra la cultura del settore commerciale e quella del non commerciale. Penso che è più importante e strategico per queste nuove forme un alleanza tra di loro. Un programma come Kunstradio e i lavori di artisti che ci lavorano è qualcosa di alieno. In un modo, noi abbiamo molta più affinità per le radio libere, indipendenti o per i media attivisti che riflettono internet etc. E’ un alleanza diversa che diventa che diventa un insieme per fare tutto. C’è un nuovo margine che va. Significa, pressioni commerciali che sono valutati ampliamente perché c’è un bisogno di salvare alcuni posti per un processo di riflessione, se la chiami arte o qualunque altra cosa. Che cosa è avvenuto se si pensa alla nostra cultura. Alcuni artisti che hanno pressato il lavoro con più figure importanti in questo genere di processo di riflessione. Di nuovo: perché loro erano i più grandi teoricizzanti e perché avevano anche le più grandi attitudini . e ambedue, le teorie e le attitudini sono informate delle pratiche in un nuovo spazio media.

JB: Cosa esattamente può essere avvenuto? Tu dipingi un pezzo di un quadro che può essere chiamato a danzare per la radio arte libera. Di che cosa c’è assolutamente bisogno per prendere parte in questo nuovo network media?

HG: Non vedo alcuna soluzione. Le soluzioni no sono visibili a tutti nelle discussioni. Per esempio: uno sulla net.art mostra che nessuno conosce una soluzione, nessuno ha una risposta.

I gruppi sono importanti dove è possibile un territorio di arte non individuale. È come spedire un virus nel web. Ma alla base gli artisti individuali non ci possono lavorare. Io posso solamente vedere che i gruppi stanno cambiando costantemente chiamandoli artisti o sottochiamandodoli non artisti. Un più grande aspetto di Kunstradio, pare assai normale un programma radio settimanale, è che gli artisti hanno riconosciuto da anni che sono diventati co autori unendosi. Loro sono improvvisamente tutti lavoratori e non possono fare a meno di questo lavoro di impegno tecnico. Alcune persone venivano dalla musica, altri dalla danza, c’erano persone dell’arte visiva, persone della letteratura ed erano rimescolati in gruppi. Loro prendono lavori diversi, e sviluppano nuove strategie di produzione per questo nuovo ampliamento dei media. Non hanno bisogno di essere gruppi per la vita, ma per certi progetti. Loro hanno visto i margini di un organizzazione o una città o qualcos’altro. Una costante è guardar fuori e prendere le energie di tutti. Azione del momento che è in difficoltà. Come è lungo questo genere di networking anche tra persone che prendono lo stesso posto. Io penso se quando non conosco dove sono, ci sia un po’ di speranza.

JB: viene dalle ari visive, ma è ora generalmente nella arte dei suini. Come è accaduto il cambiamento e le piace? Ora con la net.radio si sta muovendo l’arte visuale, ha qualche rammarico? HG: io ho iniziato riportando e scrivendo sull’arte visuale, ma io non ero un medium sull’arte visuale. Non c’erano ne internet dove potevo avere riproduzioni di qualcosa io chiamassi. Era appena un medium dove chiamavi e facevi interviste. Anche ora quando guardavo che c’era un arte di performance, c’era l’arte concettualee l’arte dematerializzata. Le teorie degli artisti che lavoravano erano molto importanti. Io ho conosciuto molte persone che lavoravano con le immagini, fisiche per ogni tipo di arte visuale. Ha dematerializzato, un modo per l’immagine o l’oggetto. Ora ci sono immagini sul web, ma non hanno un solo aspetto, hanno il modo di interpretare la data. Io penso che molti lavorino. Vedono un margine di possibilità.

La nozione di arte è cambiata dove il nome è una domanda. Molti artisti si domandano come si vogliono chiamare tutti.